Removed From Raid

Thanks for the reply Zhug.

Just a little information on the stance of the Guild: The Guild was formed just after MoP dropped. The existing members were seasoned Raiders, but wanted progression with a more lenient timeline due to real life commitments. The Guild raids 2 nights per week on Saturday evening and Sunday afternoon. As i stated i joined the Guild around 1 week ago. My understanding and what i was told regarding loot was "If it is of a decent upgrade to existing gear, you may roll on it". Nowhere did it state "If you get loot from doing LFR (solo or with a guild member) this will exempt you from Raiding with the Guild or rolling on gear that is of a decent upgrade to existing gear".

I could be way off mark with my following assumption. I would like to refer back to one of your recent podcast where Yourself and Koltrain both received a Sha Touched Weapon, however Solarflare did not, and there was a little banter about it. I am assuming they you mainly raid together, but would you find it "fair" if Solarflare decided to childish and bench both of you purly because you received weapon upgrades?

I understand the term "Sportsmanship". But if i am willing to run LFR (LFD in some cases) for an item upgrade, pay for my own repairs, pots and food - why should i be penalized for working hard and wanting to improve? I have been in raiding guilds before and they have stated "PuG'ing content we are working on and that will lock you out of a Guild only run is a kickable offense". Now LFR doesn't share the same lockout as a Normal Raid lockout, so technically whatever i do within LFR should hold no repercussions?

With regards to your last sentence. Being new in this Guild (or any Guild for that matter) has its own teething problems.

Firstly - i need to punch my weight to show I'm able to "show the goods" and i know the fights.

Secondly - Trying to fit in with the other guild members. This is something i find difficult seeing that in 3hrs of my game time there is no Guild Chat nor Vent activity.

Of course i enjoy Raiding with like minded people and its not all about loot, but in this early stages of "fitting in", is it not paramount that i focus on getting gear, and show my dedication?

I have signed for this Sundays Raid, so i will see how it goes. I will sit tight and see how the guild unfolds in the coming weeks, then review whether this Guild is for me.

Personally, I think that kinda sounds like BS.

I would think a raid group would want a well geared person in the group, A) so they can progress further B) If that said person is geared, then they are less likely to need the drops. Either your on the team or your not, unless your were told otherwise beforehand.

Basing your raid status on how lucky your were in LFR or Sha drops is stupid. Are they going to include you in future raids when you luck runs dry? Sha and LFR loot drops should be classified as individual loot systems and not counted towards to the group.

If your initial reaction to situation is "wow" and you feel uncomfortable because it isn't what you expected, in a bad way, it is usually best to leave quickly, unless someone can give you reasonable explanation that makes you feel comfortable immediately and holds true in future encounters. Once trust is gone or being questioned, it is very hard to regain, even if it is a matter if misinterpretation by both parties. There are lots of guilds and raiding groups recruiting right now, I would move on.

I find that since LFR was introduced, it's easier for guilds to create 10 or 25 man raid groups since the average gear among the population is more raid-ready. Unfortunately, gear can't make someone a better raid leader.

The guild you joined is poorly managed. The decision to bench you for a PUG because you have too much gear doesn't even make any sense. If the PUG gets any gear, it doesn't help the guild at all unless (s)he is a prospect recruit. The lack of communication about your invite and removal to/from the raid is another indication the raid leader is ill equipped to do their job properly. Allowing you to roll on loot and then awarding it to someone else is another red flag. It's favoritism. Some guilds function well enough with a loot council system. There's arguments to be made for and against it. But in this case, you can tell nothing like that was going on. They let you roll on it and then took it away which leads me to think that they never intended to let you have it in the first place; they were just hoping you wouldn't win the roll and never know. And as for gear gained outside the raid counting against you inside the raid... that's completely asinine.

Raiding guilds today are a dime a dozen. I'd advise you to voice your concerns about the management of the raid with your guild leader. It's entirely possible they lack experience and don't know how to satisfy everybody with a system that is fair to all members. If they're happy with the way things are, you should probably leave. Guilds like that will have a high turnover rate on members, and they'll be spinning their wheels in the mud trying to gear up new recruits every few weeks.

I was part of a 10 man guild who ran 10 mans, then puged 15 more for 25. Our loot system worked very well for everyone. It was a simple need before greed that worked as follows:

It's difficult to just drop into a guild and instantly be part of a tight knit group. It just doesn't happen. For anyone looking to be part of such a team, I'd suggest you start smaller. Try putting together/joining a Challenge Mode 5 man. CM is an under appreciated tool IMO. It requires communication, coordination, and skill. Any group who can work together and even get all bronze on all CMs would be an extremely strong foundation to a 10 man raid. I hope more people figure this out soon because it's basically boot-camp for guilds. It'll test its members and strengthen their teamwork better than any raid I've seen so far. CMs also have the added bonus of not invoking drama over loot. Everyone there is there to work together and perform better than their team's best. Give it a try!

In 3 bosses i rolled on 1 item which was a cloak, and spec'd for a mana caster, nobody wanted this item. This was a significant upgrade from my 463 Blue. I rolled on 2 trash trinket drops which were identical - Jade Magistrate Figurine. This trinket is ilvl 489. Both of my trinkets are ilvl 463. So this was a significant upgrade for me. The person i lost to already had a gear ilvl of 482. My current gear ilvl is 473.

Loosing a /roll is completely fine and I'm no gear snob, but if i win something fairly by /roll then surly that's fair?

This is the point i am making. Personally if i do well in an encounter which has nothing to do with the Guild Runs, surly my upgrades should be treated as something not gained or denied from anther Guild member.

Atreides: This looting system is something i am use to, either this or DKP.

Regarding CM - Ill check this out and see if i can get people interested.